The Founder of The Classical Acupuncture Mentorship on Chinese Medicine & Integrative Approaches to Women's Health
Amy: I'm very excited to have Dr. Sean Tuten today as my guest. Dr. Tuten has been in private practice since 2002 and has taught acupuncture and Chinese herbalism throughout the US, Europe, and Australia since 2004. In 2000, he co-founded the Village Health Project, a nonprofit organization that applied Chinese medicine to HIV/AIDs relief in Southern Africa. He has designed proprietary herbal formulations for Golden Flower Chinese Herbs, a product I personally use, and has been a professor for many years at the Southwest Acupuncture College in Santa Fe, New Mexico.
I'm really excited to have you here today, Sean. I had acupuncture just this afternoon. So I'm going to start with that because I had never been a believer in acupuncture. I had always felt like you could solve everything through just straight science. But then I had crazy hormones, as so many of us do, women in our peri-menopausal phase — which is lovely because it can last 10, 15, 20 years. And the only thing that has worked for me to stabilize my hormones is acupuncture. So now I'm a huge believer. Will you tell me a little bit more about yourself and what you do?
Sean Tuten: Yes. Well thanks, first of all, and I'm honored to be here. I've been in private practice 20 years as of this May. Most of that was in Santa Fe, New Mexico. I do a lot of teaching and have over the course of my career. Most of my career has been focused on women's health and pediatrics. And I just find Chinese medicine to be absolutely spectacular. I'm 20 years into this and my mind gets blown on a regular basis.
I think it allows us to treat all the dark hidden corners that Western medicine doesn't reach. It's been my experience over the course of my practice that we usually get all the cases that the West has given up on, which makes for a hard practice. But I've had a lot of success; I enjoy working with women's health. I really enjoy working with the kids. And I'm happy to tell you everything you want to know today.
Amy: What put you down this path?
Sean Tuten: That is a long story. I will try to keep it short. In my former life, I was a musician. I heard Mbira music, which is music of Southern Africa — Zimbabwe, in particular — on the college radio station. And I kind of went crazy and decided I had to learn how to play it. So I moved to Zimbabwe with a non-governmental organization and learned the instrument. But subsequently while I was there, the HIV/aids rates were just absolutely sky high. And roughly 50% of people between the age of 20 and 50 years old there had HIV. So my close friends, my teachers, were all dying. And when I came back to the US, I returned with the intention of studying medicine for the purposes of going back to try to do something useful. And that's how I got into it. I met my business partner on my very first day in acupuncture school over 20 years ago. And we decided to start that clinic together. So, that's how it all got started.
Amy: That’s amazing.Tell us about the relationship between acupuncture and women's health, wellness, and preventive care.
Sean Tuten: Well, the basics boil down to this idea of yin and yang. The balance of yang energy, which is all the things we associate with life, with energy, with daytime, with the sun, with activity, going to work, all that kind of stuff. And then yin energy is the more quiet, more retreated, darker, nighttime, rest, sleep. All of those things are considered yin. And it's important to understand that those aren't separate. We wouldn't think of a single day as two different things. It's just two parts of the same thing. In the West we tend to want to break them into separate ideas, but it's one idea.
The most common problem with women's health, but men's health as well, certainly, is that there is simply an overabundance of yang energy and an undervaluing of things that are yin. And we can see that in our basic conversations. You ask somebody that you just meet for the first time what their name is, and the second question is what do they do. Right? It's always about what are we producing? What are we making? What energy are we creating in the world? What work do we do? And there's so little value put on the idea of yin. Of rest, of nourishment, of quiet, of slowing down.
“yin is just criminally undervalued. And when we are constantly so active and so overstimulated, that yang energy needs yin. It's like the wood in a fire.”
Specifically, in the realm of women's health and cancer, the problem is almost always that there is a yang excess; we take too many yang stimulants, too much coffee, too much sugar, too many drugs, too much alcohol. All those things are very, very yang, and we simply don't value yin to the same degree as yang. I think you can even make that argument, at least historically, socially. I'm glad to see that's changing. But yin is just criminally undervalued. And when we are constantly so active and so overstimulated, that yang energy needs yin. It's like the wood in a fire. You can't have a fire without the actual material and yin is that material. We keep trying to push and push and push and push this empty energy. Running on stress hormones, running on caffeine, running on sugar all day long. And that yin becomes depleted. And that is actually the source of the cause of most hormonal disease and ultimately of cancers.
So most of what I'm doing, as far as the lifestyle issues in my practice, is really, really trying to encourage people to slow down, to rest, to do a little bit less, to move a little bit slower. And that doesn't necessarily mean we have to quit our jobs or stop doing the things we love doing. But even the way in which we do that can be so important. Because the body only has two speeds. We either have the sympathetic nervous system turned on or we have the parasympathetic nervous system turned on. And you can't have one on while the other's on... If we're running late to a meeting, our nervous systems cannot distinguish between that stress and the stress of the fact that we're about to get eaten by a bear. The body really doesn't have gears. It only has go or stop. And so that's a huge issue. And hydration is a huge issue. The nourishment of yin. One of the best ways to do that is get more rest, get more sleep. But if you're open to it, I'd love to talk about what that means for people on a daily basis and what people can do to nourish themselves.
Amy: Yes. On the nutrition side, I'm really interested in two things. One, the herbs and how those are supplements and how you prescribe them and how you use them in your practice. And then also, from an acupuncture point of view, what does acupuncture do specifically to help stimulate this balance between the yin and the yang? I find that to be so fascinating.
Sean Tuten: The channel system, which is like a system of circulation, is extremely complex. And most acupuncturists tend to work with the primary channels. The primary channels are the main thoroughfare through which the energy and the blood move. And each of those channels is connected to a particular organ system. So on these channels are acupuncture points and the acupuncture points serve as points of access into the body through which we can give the body certain signals and messages.
Acupuncture is really a conversation with the body, from the very get go. The main diagnostic tool that we have is taking the pulse. When we're taking the pulse, we're simply listening to what the body is telling us to do. And then we respond by essentially having this conversation by accessing these different points, which send different messages to the body. And they can do a lot of things. Ask the body to raise the energy, ask the body to lower the energy, ask the body to circulate the energy, ask the body to calm the energy. So in a nutshell, that's what acupuncture boils down to.
There are different systems, particularly as far as yin goes and hormones go within the reproductive realm: the kidney is the organ that governs our reproductive health, our sexual maturation, and so on and so forth through the life cycle. So when you needle the kidney channel, it does kidney things. It actually causes the body to internalize, it slows people down, it calms people down, it draws the energy inward. I don't think we have time to go over them all.
But that's the essence of it is that you are giving the body signals and opening different acupuncture channels. There are deeper ones within the body that connect directly to the endocrine system, that connect directly to the reproductive organs, to the uterus and so on and so forth. You're giving the body messages about how to start to shift, to change the way that it has been doing things into the way that it needs to be doing things. And the beauty of is that all comes from the patient. This is never us enforcing our will on a patient. If you're good at it, you listen to what you're told to do and you respond. So your body is always in charge of the treatment, which I just find very powerful.
“I look at herbal medicine like advanced nutrition. Nutrition is extraordinarily powerful and herbs are just a different form of that.”
Herbs are a little bit different. I look at herbal medicine like advanced nutrition. Nutrition is extraordinarily powerful and herbs are just a different form of that. We use herbs just like we would use food that have a very watery quality, an unctuous quality. Things that actually nourish yin. And in doing so, when you give the body more of what it's asking for, more of what it needs, then it's not in this situation where it feels threatened and it's having to hoard. When it has what it needs, the whole system relaxes and everything's able to circulate more freely and the bottom body doesn't feel the need to hold on to those substances anymore.
Amy: And are you an advocate of doing herbs and acupuncture together or are there any other therapies that you recommend?
Sean Tuten: It depends on the patient because, as cliché as it sounds, everybody really is very individual and every patient is different…
The most famous herbal text in Chinese medicine is 2000 years old. And we still use those exact same formulas today and they're extraordinarily effective. And it was a profoundly sophisticated form of medicine for the past 2000 years. It's quite different from Western herbalism, which I have a lot of respect for, but is much simpler than Chinese herbalism. Chinese herbalism tends to involve long formulations, many, many, many different combinations of herbs, often up to sometimes 10, 20 different herbs in a single formula, to work synergistically with themselves to do a number of different things simultaneously. Because not every person's the same. And you have people coming in with very, very strong constitutions who can handle stronger medicine. You have people coming in with weaker constitutions, who you need to boost and strengthen and nurture a little bit more. So it's a really sophisticated form of medicine. And it really just depends on the person sitting in front of me and what's best for them.
Amy: That's amazing. I also really like what you were saying at the very beginning about being able to respect both Eastern Western sciences and perhaps use them both, and the sense that what you're doing picks up with the cases that doctors have shrugged their shoulders and said, "We've tried everything." Surgeons do surgery, specialists focus on their specialty. And if they can't find the answers, it's like, "Well, sorry. We helped you."
I can't tell you the number of women that have come over the last 24 years that I've been doing this, have come to me or emailed me or called me or text me, and said, "I had all these symptoms. Legitimate symptoms. I went to three doctors who told me that I was just getting older, I needed to change my diet a little or I needed to exercise more until I finally said, 'No, no, there's something going on. There's something wrong here.'"
But there are so many women who don't go down that road, who accept the answer of, "No, don't worry about it. It's fine.”
Sean Tuten: I couldn't agree more. I think it's criminal. There is an abundance of arrogance in medicine, in both the West and the East. There's no shortage of it to go around. But good medicine — and this applies to any medical system — is simply observation. Really, really paying attention and really, really watching for the signs and the clues and the indicators. Now, we understand physiology differently, we understand how the body works differently, but within our system, it is all extremely scientific. This isn't made up. This is thousands of years of observation and study and work.
It’s an extremely sophisticated system of medicine, just as the West is, and it requires a great deal of humility. That's why we call it practicing medicine. I just don't believe that there is any such thing as mastery of medicine. You practice, and I will be practicing until the day I take my last breath. It requires humility and it requires really seeing the person in front of you for their individuality and what they are really trying to tell you. And that's why I think the pulse is so beautiful because it's a way past all of the layers that we all build up — the presentation of self in everyday life. The layers that we built up as human beings and it's a way to get beyond that and have a conversation with the deepest level of the body and ask, "What do you need from me as your provider? What do you need me to do?"
I see my role simply as a facilitator. I don't do the healing work. Every patient does their own healing work and I am simply there to facilitate. In tough clinical cases — let's not kid ourselves, cancer is not easy to work with — that can be hard. Because there's layer upon layer upon layer that's built up over time. That's the nature of cancer. We all have dysfunctional cells. We often all have cancerous cells. That's not the problem. The problem is when it builds up to the point where our body's resources can't manage that. And so we go from floating above our own levels of toxicity to being overwhelmed by them and drowned by them. And that's when tumors and cancer show up.
And that's what I think acupuncture is just spectacularly good at. The ways that we have to engage with diagnostics are different. I love Western diagnostics, don't get me wrong; they're great. But so is this. When I've had the good fortune and the luck to work with doctors who are open to it, and we are working as equals, that's when I've seen spectacular results, specifically with cancer treatments. Because at its best, what we do will support what is being done in the West. There are different approaches when people are undergoing chemo or radiation or hormone therapy than when they're recovering from those things or when they're preparing for those things. And that's what I think creates the most potent combination. At least that's what I've seen.
Amy: I completely agree. There's no question. I'm in Los Angeles, I'm in Santa Monica. It's like the heart and soul of integrative medicine and holistic approaches to treatments, but it's not enough. It's just the beginning I think. I spent a lot of time talking about listening patients and that the patient must be their own advocate, but the doctor also must be a good listener. I think, just as you were saying that's what you do naturally in your practice. To be able to translate some of that into more traditional Western medicine would then even further open up a larger picture.
Sean Tuten: I think so too. I think part of the struggle with the West is that everything's become so specialized. You're seeing different specialists for every conceivable thing under the sun. I think there's really some value in the old approach of the family practice doctor who actually knew the family and knew the parents and knew the grandparents and had watched these hereditary issues run through the family. That in and of itself will give you a lot of information.
I think there's a lot to be learned from both ends, and I'll stand by it. I think really what science boils down to is just really, really good observation. Paying close attention to the details. There is one last thing I’d like to mention. I'd be remiss if I didn't sneak it in here.
Amy: Please.
Sean Tuten: One of the most vital things that I think we can offer women from our perspective, as far as women's health goes, is the idea of deep hydration. Hydration is really, really, really vital. It's the essence of yin energy, which we all need, but certainly, specifically, women tend to need more of it. And drinking water isn't enough. Drinking water is clearing in Chinese medicine. It'll clear out toxins; it'll clear out a buildup of toxicity in our bodies, but it doesn't hydrate at a deep and fundamental level. And so one of the biggest dietary values that Chinese medicine offers is the idea of wet food. Of eating congees, Kitcharis, soup, stew, braised foods. Because the idea with that is that these foods have soaked up a lot of water over a long period of time. So they are holding that water within the food itself. And once we ingest that food and it gets down into the GI tract and into the intestines, then the body can absorb that water over a long period of time. It's like time-release hydration.
If there was one thing, unquestionably, that I would recommend to everybody — and I do harass my patients endlessly about this — is at least one of your meals per day should be in soup form. Because dehydration is just an absolute scourge. And I know it sounds simple, and I know we're all anxious to get to what supplements we should take, but I'll tell you, in 20 years, the best answer is always the simplest one and hydration is absolutely the best place to start.
Amy: I love it. I work with this incredible holistic nutritionist and that's what she spends the majority of her time talking about too. We're all walking around dehydrated and just drinking water isn't enough; we're not actually absorbing it in our bodies. So I appreciate you mentioning this. When you know when you're dehydrated, but then it's too late.
Sean Tuten: Exactly. If you know you're dehydrated, it is already too late.
Amy: It's a real lifestyle change. In the United States, we don't eat hydrating foods. We eat a lot of dehydrating foods and we just don't hydrate ourselves.
I really hope that everyone will take a little bit away from what you said, hopefully a lot away, but even just those little bits of information that you put out there that are so important. I also appreciate your encouraging women i to know themselves and to speak up at any doctor's office, any practitioner’s office, and say, "This is what's going on with me. And it's different. Or it's normal, but I don't like that normal."
Sean Tuten: Honor your body and trust your body.
Amy: And be your own best advocate. Because if you're not, no one else will be.
Sean Tuten: No one else will be sadly. That is all too true.